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comfort, warmth

One thing I’ve thought about a great deal, particularly since becoming poly, is the concept of emergence and how it relates to relationships. Emergence, in the context I’m using it, is when a system exists, made up of components, and the interactions between those components become complex enough that a new entity emerges from the system. It is utterly new, something that did not exist before the system, that cannot exist without the system, but that is greater than the system.

A common, if disputed, example is the way that the mind emerges from the brain. In my view, anyway, the mind is something larger and greater than the biological components that have created it. It is those components, but it is also something else, something which can interact with and influence the components that make it up, and interact with the world in a way that the individual components cannot. The pieces have combined in such intricate and complex ways that a sort of leap has occurred. Something new has come into existence.

Relationships between people are the same way. Two people interact with each other, and they do it in nearly infinite ways. A million tiny pieces intertwine in the space between the individuals. Every conversation, every touch, every shared experience, every commonality, every difference. Each interaction forms another connection, and the web grows exponentially as the interaction continues, until one day there is something there that was not there before. There are still the two people and all the things they put into the middle. But now there is a Themness. A Relationship. A living, dynamic, breathing entity that exists of and between them, that can influence their behaviors and be influenced by their behaviors.

When polyamory gets involved, things become exponentially more complex, and hence more emergent. Take a triad as an example. It’s commonly said that when three people are involved with each other, there are four relationships: Kevin and Jennifer, Jennifer and Mark, Mark and Kevin, Jennifer and Mark and Kevin. But I think it’s even more complex than that, because what we rarely pay attention to are the relationships between the relationships. The emergent entities interacting with each other and producing yet more entities. Bear with me, this has a point, I promise. So in our hypothetical triad above, we have:

Kevin + Jennifer = KJ
Jennifer + Mark = JM
Mark + Kevin = MK
Kevin + Jennifer + Mark = KJM
KJ + JM = KJJM
JM + MK = JMMK
KJ + MK = KJMK
KJ + JM + MK = KJJMMK

And on and on, you see. This is not just my wankery, perhaps despite appearances. It really does work this way. It’s more than just me and you and him interacting, the ways we interact with each other interact too, and things get way too complex to explain right quick. Do this enough, and you get more and more and more entities emerging from the ever-evolving mass of interpersonal connections: families, networks, subcultures, cultures, society. All these interact with each other too, and new things emerge from those interactions.

This seems to me to be the way everything works, on some fundamental level. Which makes the potential of the human race and life in general rather staggering, but that’s a point for another day. Here’s where I’m going with this: Emergence is everywhere you look, and I think people understand it on an instinctual level, even if they aren’t as fond of intellectualizing the fuck out of their existence as I am. Yet in many ways we talk as if it’s not true.

Let’s take sex as an example, because, well, what’s not more fun that way? Perhaps the biggest topic of discussion with regard to polyamory is jealousy. Fear. Specifically, fear of my partner having sex with some other person, being wildly enamored of their genitalia, and sailing off to moister pastures, leaving me to cry alone in an alley and buy some cats.

Here’s the thing: “having sex” is an utterly meaningless construct. It has no real meaning by itself, when it’s not populated by people. It’s a vague and enormous category of things, but we often speak of it as if it’s this static activity that we do with every partner. This a gross overgeneralization, one that generates an amazingly large lie that is the foundation of one of the biggest fears we face.

Because sex? Is emergent too. Which means that the thing that emerges between you and me? Cannot happen with anyone else. Ever. Not because you love me so much you won’t let anyone replace me. Not because I place this or that boundary on your relations with others. But because it’s impossible.

The sex I have with Kevin (oh, dear, now KJJMMK is even more complicated) is not just quantitatively different from the sex I have with Veronica. It’s not better or worse along some continuum of this one type of experience. It’s qualitatively different, and not just a little bit. The differences between the two experiences outnumber the similarities by thousands to one. The experiences are so different even down to a pure physiological level that using the same terminology to describe both is a bit erroneous.

The entire concept of my partner “having better sex” with some other person is so fundamentally in error that it doesn’t even make sense when you’re looking at sex as an entity that emerges from the specific interaction of a specific set of individuals. They can’t have sex with me with someone else. They certainly can’t have “better” sex-with-me with someone else. It can’t be replicated by another, because they aren’t me. There is no competition between the entities, because they’re incomparable to each other.

Yet we have to keep using the terminology, really. We have to discuss our experiences somehow, and abstract categories are really all we have to work with if we don’t want to get bogged down in every turn of phrase to the point where communication becomes impossible. I am hopeful, though, that we can find a way to hold the larger concepts in our minds, even if we can’t always articulate them.

It’s frustrating. Words suck, but we’re all stuck with them, slogging along doing the truth-encompassing equivalent of grunting incoherently at each other. At least until our language becomes complex enough that a new form of communication emerges, which given all available evidence is an inevitable occurrence.

Won’t that be an interesting day?

Comments

( 4 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]timestheyare wrote:
Sep. 19th, 2011 05:03 am (UTC)
I think this would require a major overhaul of our language. Because this isn't really just about sex. It's about everything, isn't it? Anything you can do with someone can be a wildly different experience from person to person. the only way we have in our language of referring to many of them are the physical similiarities. Talking, playing, arguing, having sex, what-have-you. All of them can be awesome or terrible under the same verbs.
[info]figmentj wrote:
Sep. 19th, 2011 01:03 pm (UTC)
Yes, it is everything, I was just using sex as an example. And yes, it would require that. :)
[info]sageautumn wrote:
Sep. 19th, 2011 05:13 pm (UTC)
Mostly I want to agree with you about relationships being much more complicated, and the more people factored in (poly or not... you can factor in mothers or mother-in-laws) the even more complex.

Personally I subscribe to the idea that each relationship between two people is six different people. There's Sam and Kip... and who Sam thinks Sam is, and who Kip thinks Kip is, and who Kip thinks Sam is, and who Sam thinks Kip is. And hell, that's just with two people.

I also believe that every person is a different person to and for each person they meet. And I don't mean that in a "Kip is coy and playing games with Sam" sort of way... I mean it in a "Kip is not the same person to or for Sam as they are for Pat." I think I'm using this correctly, the emergence of the "person" is different for each other "person*."

What I'm a bit torn on from your entry is... ...the idea that sex with Sam could not be better than sex with Pat, which I disagree with--WHILE I totally and entirely agree with the idea that sex with Sam is only sex with Sam, and Kip cannot have sex-with-Sam... with Pat.

I guess I agree they are different in fact, idea, and even definition... ...while still feeling that doesn't mean one could not overall be better than the other.

I think? it comes from my agreeing/knowing you could have two seperate events (whatever they may be) that are completely enjoyable, in very very different ways--and therefor not being able to choose which is better... ...but my feeling that different in and of itself, doesn't make something enjoyable.

I guess what I mean is... ...the idea that because the experieces cannot be compared against each other as the exact same thing, they cannot be judged seems false to me.

Somehow, I feel there is a flaw in my thinking, even though I can't quite find it.

Oddly enough, I keep coming back to judging things in 4-H shows. You judge X as an example of X on that scale... then you judge Y as an example of Y on that scale... then ... yes, X and Y can be judged against each other as to which is a better example of X and Y. Even if X is a show chicken, and Y is a hook rug. They are only uncomparable if they are the exact same level of perfection.

In terms of sex... ...if the overall enjoyment of being with Sam averages about 9, and Pat averages the same... then perhaps they are not comparable on any spectrum. But if Sam averages a 4, and Pat averages a 9... ...then they don't have to be compared in order to be judged against each other.

I think/know I'm just missing something, and can't quite figure out what.***

/small *This is part of why I think I'd find living poly very hard... each person could easily, on some level, want to be the one to know Kip best. And each person could, in fact, know _their_ Kip best. But Kip to Sam and Kip to Pat... could rather easily be not quite the same Kip**. And that's not even getting into the Sam that Kip knows vs the Sam that Pat knows, and yes... the Sam/Pat that Kip knows vs the Sam/Kip that Pat knows... because even Sam/Pat are going to be different people for each other when Kip is around vs when they are alone.

**And (I hope obviously) I don't mean Kip's favorite food with Sam is apples, but it's a hated food with Pat. I mean more along the lines of... who is silent or emotional, or who saves or spends, or who goes downstairs when there's a noise.

*** other than, obviously, there's much more to a relationship than sex... that's a given. And/or that anyone that's sailing off based ONLY on genitalia... you are likely better off without.
[info]figmentj wrote:
Sep. 21st, 2011 01:59 am (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is what you're missing (if indeed you are missing something), but yours seems to be the most common response, and I responded way lengthily to it here: http://slipjig.livejournal.com/795163.html?thread=5520155#t5520155

I think your point about being a different person to all of our people is a really good and important one, too.

( 4 comments — Leave a comment )